John Wilson 0:00

Blair, I can't tell you how much I appreciate you being with us today. I've been really looking forward to this session together. Thank you for making the time to be with us. Oh, it's my pleasure. It's an honor to be here, John.

Blair Hyslop 0:10

Thanks.

John Wilson 0:10

Let me just let everybody know just a quick introduction that today's guest is Blair Hislip. And Blair is the co-CEO and the co-owner of Mrs. Dunster's Bakery. And the other co-CEO and co-owner is Blair's wife, Roswell. And together they have grown a family-owned business in the Atlantic, Canada's largest fresh bakery uh-owned business. And um with products now sold right across Canada, Blair, and also in the United States. So we have with us a fellow who has been there, done that, built an outstanding company. And Rosen and Blair have both received the top 50 CEO award several times, I believe. And they have both been inducted into the New Brunswick Business Hall of Fame. Blair is passionate about entrepreneurship. He does a lot to help other entrepreneurs. I've seen that firsthand. He's also a student of the great game of leadership and a great example of that. And he's also passionate about regional economic growth. So he's on the board of the Wallace McCain Institute for Business Leadership. Again, thank you so much for being here. And I got I got a couple of questions for you, Blair. And uh so maybe I'll just fire away on the first one. I'll fire away. So Mrs. Dunsters has seen incredible growth. What were the hardest decisions that you had to make to scale without losing that feel of a family business?

Blair Hyslop 1:36

Well, that's a great question. You know, John, we we've grown, I think, an average of 20% a year over 12 years. And three of those years we didn't grow. So really the years we've grown have been at 30, 35% a year. And, you know, I don't think as entrepreneurs we think about growth, uh, the downside of growth, right? And a lot of challenges come with growth. And so I was kind of, we were kind of caught off guard, you know, by by some of those challenges associated with growth, because we think of growth is a good thing. I would say the hardest thing for me is that I think, you know, we've doubled two or three times, I think. And the challenge is that sometimes the business outgrows some of the people. And the skill set of really solid, good, hardworking people that are in, you know, sort of leadership positions when a company is this big don't necessarily have the skills when they're this big. And so having to deal with those kind of circumstances either by finding sort of different kind of work for those folks, or sometimes they just don't work out and they can't adapt. And I would say that's the hardest part because really it's no fault of their own. They're kind of a victim of their own success and our success. So I would say that's the hardest part. There's lots of challenges, but that the hardest part is I I find personally is when uh when some good people, the business outgrows some of the good people.

John Wilson 2:50

Yeah, well, thanks for sharing that with us. That is very tough. You've spent over 30 years in the food business, uh, Blair. What trends are overhyped right now, if any? And what actually matters in building a great food brand like you and your wife have?

Blair Hyslop 3:04

Well, those are two questions. Uh, you know, I would say trends come and go. You know, I've been in the food business a long time. There's been a lot of trends. And uh in our business, you know, you think about the hundredcalie trend, the gluten-free trend, the now protein is big on trend, and everybody's navigating towards those things. And and I think those things are can be opportunistic if if you act quickly. But they can also be very expensive, you know, if they come and go for companies our side. You know, the trend that doesn't change, John, in 35 years in the food business? Indulgence. You know, it doesn't matter how healthy people are trying to eat, it doesn't matter what they're doing. I think indulgence is something that is there's always a space for it. Always a space for it. But for me, and and your second question was really what builds a strong brand. And I think we are like a lot of Canadian food companies and a lot of Canadian companies. We are bigger than the small guys and smaller than the big guys. And so for us, you know, we've grown at 20% a year for 12 years in an industry that's growing at 2% a year. And and why are we able to do that? It's not because we're leading edge innovation champions, it's because we deliver really good products and really good service, and our customers keep coming back for more in a world where the big guys are getting bigger and the small guys can't really service the market in the same way we can. And so we're able to kind of out-hustle and you know, outprovide the market. And so, you know, when you have 1% market share, you know, geez, you've got lots of upside. You don't need that innovation for us anyway. We don't need that that innovative, front-of-the-line, uh, expensive investment and innovation to grow. We just need to keep doing what we're doing. And we do that because that's enough. Like when you're going at 30, 35% a year, you don't have time to start, you know, not that we're not innovative, lots of innovative things, but they come organically within the organization and from customers' requests and from things like that. So I think what builds a good brand is is good service, good culture, which translates into good service, and and really good products that stand out from the other guys. And if you do that, well, then you're gonna build a good brand.

John Wilson 5:06

Yeah, thank you for that. You also speak about labor and immigration in Atlantic Canada. What do leaders outside Atlantic Canada misunderstand most about the opportunity there?

Blair Hyslop 5:16

Well, you know, New Brunswick has one of the oldest populations in the country. And so for us, you know, there's a perception out there that we have too many immigrants in Canada and and that um, you know, they're a burden to our healthcare system and a burden to our education system and to housing. And so the federal government has a policy of, you know, restricting, presumably restricting the number of of newcomers allowed into the country. That's not actually what's happening. What's actually happening is there are millions of newcomers here that are working, that are on temporary work permits while they work towards their permanent residency. And they depend on a system where they came over, on the promise of a system where those work permits, if you do what you say you're going to do and you do it well, they'll be extended and they'll give you the opportunity to achieve that permanent residency that you're looking for. And so what's happening today is that the federal government is restricting the number of those permits. And so we're sending people home. It's not that we're not allowing more people in, it's that we're sending people home who have work permits that are expiring this year. You know, we'll lose 10% of our workforce. Next year we'll lose another 10% of our workforce. And these are people who are hardworking, their kids are in the education system, they're in schools, they're in housing, all their families are here, they've been trained, they are supervisors in some cases and managers. And the rules change kind of after they get here. So, you know, in New Brunswick, for example, we've added almost 100,000 people in the last five years to our population. And our unemployment rate went down. So obviously, we've been able to absorb those folks into the workforce because of that the high demand that we have for labor as baby boomers retire, as you know, we don't have population growth on the bottom end coming up, and uh and and we have growing businesses. And so at the end of the day, we need, at the very minimum, you know, what we need is for the people that are here to be allowed to stay here. While, and granted, maybe we don't allow a lot more to come in while the government, you know, works on building as entrepreneurs. If we grow fast, what do we do? We invest in the capital needed to remove the bottlenecks in the system, right? So the government needs time to do that with health care and education and so on and housing, and they're working on that. But in the meantime, you know, let's keep the people here that are here. So businesses like ours in Atlantic Canada, and I'm sure across the country, I hear from people all over the country that this is an issue everywhere. And I think we're looking at it in the wrong lens. And, you know, the narrative is wrong. The government isn't restricting the number of people who can come. They're sending back a couple of million people who are already here. And that is going to create uh major issues, um, particularly in manufacturing, particularly in food manufacturing, and certainly in entry-level positions across the country. And and the other problem we have is that the only people talking about immigration are the people that are anti-immigration. So as business leaders, I think we have a responsibility to speak up, to create the social license for the politicians to say, no, no, no, we need a more balanced approach here. If if the only people being heard are the people that are anti-immigration, then they're gonna win. You know, at the end of the day, we've grown from 50, you know, 50 employees when we purchased Mrs. Nasters in 2014. One wasn't born in Canada. Today we have 250 employees, 50% of them aren't born in Canada. We have 13 different nationalities and we speak 24 different languages. And I can't imagine how we would have grown as a business without the benefit of newcomers.

John Wilson 8:32

Yeah, well. Thank you for sharing that with us. It's a really important issue. There's no question about it. And uh thank you for advocating for that. You you have won multiple CEO awards, so has your wife. But this question is directed to you. What what leadership lesson took you the longest to learn?

Blair Hyslop 8:48

You know, for me, the um the lesson that kind of took me the longest to learn, I think, is in terms of leadership, is listening to others' input before you make a decision, you know, and and asking clarity questions. So two foundational elements of CO Global, right, is like before we get into it, let's ask clarity questions. And, you know, for me, historically, you know, when I was younger, I would just jump into input, you know. And then, but then also if you're if you're the one having to make the decision, then waiting for all of the input, collecting input from, you know, 15 people before you make your decision. I think so the patience that goes with asking clarity questions and getting input before you make a decision, I think is one of the most valuable things I've learned in the context of leadership. Thank you for that.

John Wilson 9:34

You and your wife built the business together. How do you navigate running a company, Blair, and a marriage at the same time? How do you do that? There's no short answer to that question.

Blair Hyslop 9:44

No, so obviously I thought a lot about this. So to some degree, working with your spouse is no different than you know, working with a business partner, you know, whether that sometimes that partner is your brother, your sister, your cousin, your sometimes it's just, you know, uh a colleague. And so there are challenges that are associated with having partnerships, right, in business. I would say, you know, for me, what we've had to learn over the years is that we wear lots of different hats. And what I mean by that is sometimes, you know, your husband or wife, sometimes you're a mama or dad, sometimes you're in a management, you're putting a management hat on in terms of being responsible for a functional area like sales or business development or finance. And sometimes you're a shareholder. And you have to learn, and sometimes you're a mom or dad, right? Um and you have to learn to understand when it's appropriate to wear which hat, and you have to understand which hat the other person's wearing when they're speaking. And you know, because sometimes, you know, it's not appropriate for the shareholder to challenge me on something operationally that I'm responsible for, for example, in no in the same way a business partner would, right? And if you want to have a shareholder conversation, then we have that in the board meeting. We don't have that, you know, in in front of other managers talking about, you know, operational issues, and and vice versa. And so I think really trying to understand, and I don't mean this sort of literally, but sometimes it's literal. Sometimes it's like, well, okay, what hat do you wear? You know, but usually it's just a matter of navigating back and forth between understanding which hat you're wearing or you should be wearing and which hat they're wearing or should be wearing. And I think that is one of the biggest challenges of of working with with family is really distinguishing between which hat you're wearing in that moment. Are you, you know, the spouse who's responsible for household finances talking, or are you the spouse who's responsible for corporate finances when you're talking, right? Like, you know, a different it's a different hat. And uh sometimes we get them confused, and when we have tension, it's because we've got them confused.

John Wilson 11:39

Yeah, that's very interesting. Very interesting. Thank you. Thank you for those insights. Uh, my last question, and then we're gonna wrap up. We're okay. So the last question is if you were 25 years old again with everything you know now, would you still choose entrepreneurship? And this is a two-part question. And and and what would you do differently, if anything?

Blair Hyslop 12:02

So, you know, my introduction to to entrepreneurship was in the junior achievement program, and um, and ironically, that's where I met my wife, you know, 37 years ago. That's interesting. And in our first date, we talked about one day having our own business together. So I guess it would be hypocritical of me to say I would do anything different. All we ever wanted to do was have our own family business. And I worked for in the corporate world for 25 years before we did this. So it took a while. You know, every time we go to a restaurant or a diner, we'd flip over the place, Matt, and draft out a business plan, you know, about something. That opportunity came in 2014 when we bought Mrs. Tuster's. And uh so I don't think I would do anything differently, but um, you know, I would still want to be an entrepreneur, junior achievement, you know, inflicted me with that disease of entrepreneurship. And uh and so that very much unleashed a purpose for me in in terms of business. What would I do differently? I think I would make the leap a lot sooner. And uh, you know, I I waited a long time to figure out, you know, how to raise the capital and how to how to get into uh into business. And and it took a long time for me to realize that um it wasn't as hard as I thought it was. And so um so if I had to go back today, you know, I uh we were I was what 46, 47, I think, when we bought Mrs. Tunsters. And so my runway is is a lot shorter than than many entrepreneurs that are out there, and we got a lot to do, so we're doing it. Um but imagine if we'd have started 20 years earlier, you know, where we would be today. So if if I did one thing different, I would have started earlier.

John Wilson 13:38

Thank you, Blair. I can't thank you enough for doing this. On behalf of everybody listening, watching, we really appreciate you taking the time. I know you got a lot you got a lot of plates on sticks, for sure. But we we thank you uh very sincerely for doing this. And uh I look forward to seeing you again very soon.

Blair Hyslop 13:54

Well, and thank you for what you've done, John, with CEO Global. And uh, you know, it's been a valuable part of our experience. And I'm I'm grateful for my group and and uh and our moderator, John, and and the work that you all do to make this program successful. So thanks for that. No, thank you very much. I really appreciate being part of it, where.