John Wilson 0:00

Tom, I can't thank you enough for being on the CO Global Network Podcast. We really appreciate you making the time to be with us. We we know you got a busy calendar. So thanks for being with us. Oh, thanks, John. It's great to be here. I want to just tell our listeners and those who are watching the podcast, I just want to take a second and tell them a little bit about you, Tom, because uh you got such a fantastic background. So I'm just gonna take a couple minutes of our of our time together. Outstanding career with companies like Conagra, Pepsi, Fritolay, Molson, Fiera Foods. You were the EVP of NGM of Upper Crust, president of Conagra Foods Canada, VP Sales of Molson Coors, VP Customer Development Canada for PepsiCo. I mean, those are very iconic brands. I want to also mention this, though, because you are a highly decorated CEO and uh you know one of the most highly decorated I've ever met, quite frankly. Uh in 212, you got the award of distinction from Toronto Metropolitan University. 218, the Food Association of Canada awarded you the Golden Pencil Award, very coveted award for sure. The same year, that was a good year for you, Tom, because you also got the Food Health and Consumer Products Award of Distinction. Okay, so you were giving a lot of thank you speeches during the 2018. And then most recently, 223, the grocery business uh magazine Hall of Fame. That's quite a great career. Congratulations. Yeah, that was a real honor. And luckily for CEO Global Network and for me, shortly after leaving the corner office, we met and you became a group leader and mentor with CEO Global Network. And I know you still sit on the boards of a number of companies, not the least of which is Burnbray Farms. You're also board chair and vice chair of uh the Grocery Foundation, eh, which is a very important group in Canada. When you're not doing all those things, I know you really cherish time with your family. And I've also heard through the grapevine that you're a very competitive tennis player. And and and have even won a pickleball or two competition. Okay. So uh actually tennis.

Tom Gunter 2:05

Like I wouldn't pretend to be good at pickleball, but tennis, yes. But that was quite some time ago.

John Wilson 2:10

Yeah. Yeah. Well, let's get right into it. I want to let people know a little bit about who you are, just how accomplished you are, what you know, what your career has been up to this point, and how you're helping your CEOs succeed all the time today. First question for you. You spent decades leading inside major brands like the ones I've mentioned. What leadership lesson took you the longest to learn?

Tom Gunter 2:34

I'd say the one that was the most challenging would be uh giving constructive feedback. You know what you want to say and you know what the content, but the way to say it, the timing, choosing the right words, all of those things are are difficult. And it takes a lot of courage too. And I would say that it seems to be the biggest challenge I think a lot of management people have today. It's very easy to give positive feedback, but when you have to give something the course correct, you know, you got to figure out the right strategy to do that. And it takes a while, it takes experience to find the right words and uh and watching people who are very good at it. So that would be the the thing I found was the most challenging uh to to master.

John Wilson 3:13

Yeah, no, that's that's a good one. It's one that uh, you know, we can certainly relate to as well. After your long career as a as a CEO, as an executive, what drew you toward mentoring CEOs and advising companies instead of stepping away from the industry?

Tom Gunter 3:26

Yeah, I always say it was tough to get away from having the wheel in my hands, but you know, I absolutely loved the industry I was in, and I couldn't get enough of it. That's why I was involved in so many things and I enjoyed the people. I still stay in touch with a lot of them today. It took a little while to realize, you don't realize, I think, when you're in senior roles, how much you've learned and over the years through experiences. And until you start talking to people and start mentoring, uh sometimes even casually, you start realizing that maybe you know a few things that that could be of of help to people. And I I would say that's what's kept me into it. It's so much more rewarding in a lot of ways because you're you're you really feel you're helping and you're able to uh you know to show people that you care. And it's something that don't really get the same the same way of offering that when you're running a business because you're so focused on the KPIs and the results and and the demands of uh people farther up the chain. It's something I just love doing and I'm able to stay close to it. And it and and also you're always learning from it. I mean, it keeps me current and uh and I'm very curious too. So it's been rewarding from that from that angle.

John Wilson 4:36

Yeah, it keeps to learning, eh? Absolutely. So in the in the consumer packaged goods world, Tom, in your opinion, what separates brands that grow for decades, like the ones you have been with, from the ones that slowly disappear over time?

Tom Gunter 4:49

It's a couple of things. I think certainly private label has become a bigger player. Retailers want to can want to dominate the agenda today. So it's very important that brands that want to stay relevant understand that whatever you did today or yesterday uh is not necessarily going to work in the future. And you need to figure out how do you connect with the the next generation cohort to make sure that your product's relevant. And on top of that, something people seem to forget is how you execute at store level to make sure your product's visible and that it's in distribution and that you're, you know, you're competitive in terms of pricing and and such. It's it's a critical aspect. And I think sometimes people get too caught up in the strategy and the the the beautiful part of the marketing side, and they they sometimes forget about the importance of making sure the product's on the shelf, that it's in the right location and it's available uh in every store. There's a lot of work and it and it's a lot of physical work to get it there. So I think some companies have done a very good job of that over the years, and they've they've kept pr brands like I think a tie to Procter and Gamble. They've basically eliminated a bunch of their secondary detergent brands and put all their energy behind one to make sure it stood out and uh it's paid off for them.

John Wilson 6:01

Yeah, yeah, paid off a lot. Yeah, no question. I've I've heard you talk about relationships being like a bank account, Tom. And how has that idea shaped how you lead people?

Tom Gunter 6:11

Yeah, it's uh it's about when I say deposits, it's like it's it's building that baseline of trust with people. And you're gonna do that by uh so many different ways. It's um, you know, complimenting them when things are going, finding them doing things right, thank you notes, uh, it's sending notes to their homes because you're acknowledging something they did that was extraordinary. And it's that they need to know that you're gonna listen without prejudice and that when they bring something to the table, you're gonna listen and you're going to ask them questions to help them figure out what's happening. So they know you're approachable. Once you've established that baseline, you made all those types of deposits, there's gonna be a time when you need to provide some sort of constructive feedback, and that's what I'd call a withdrawal. So I always say you can't be doing that with an empty bank account. You gotta make sure you you're always making way more deposits than withdrawals, because if people don't trust where the feedback's coming from, they're not gonna heed it. So that's really my philosophy behind deposits and withdrawals. I think it's an easy way to explain to people how uh building trust works.

John Wilson 7:11

Yeah, that's a great analogy. Now, as someone who is now working and mentoring CEOs, what is one of the blind spots that you see even experienced leaders struggle with?

Tom Gunter 7:23

Yeah, I think um it's it's following up on accountability. I think too often leaders will say to their people directly, here's the things I need you to do, here's the strategy, here's the key priorities, and they just figure that they know it, they heard it from me, it's gonna happen. And I think people generally want to do the right thing. But as we all know, once you in this, especially today when you've got emails coming at you and social media and everything else, I think people get distracted in a hurry. So unless you're really coming back to those points and those priorities regularly, and they know you're gonna come back with it, you're you're you're flirting with disaster because you're gonna find that they heard you, but they got distracted and you have not come back to it, so you didn't get the execution. So accountability, I think, is the thing that lacks the most. And of course, that ties in well with KPIs. So people need to know that that's the thing you're gonna measure them on. And if they try to drift, you got to bring them back, say, look, I see those as being important things to you, but the things we really need to have happen are these. And we talked about this. So it needs to be a consistent message, and accountability is I think the biggest challenge out there for most leaders.

John Wilson 8:32

Yeah, no, it is that that is a challenge. I got one last question for you, Tom, and then we're gonna wrap up, okay? When you look back on your successful career, what was one decision or moment that completely changed the trajectory of your career?

Tom Gunter 8:47

It was an easy one when you and I saw that question. It was I took a lateral assignment at PepsiCo to manage a DSD sales force. And uh, I was in account management, and I thought, well, I know all the customers, I'm pretty good at it. And uh, you kind of view the the ladder as being something you just hit the next run. And uh, this was a lateral, it was out of the limelight, but I'll tell you, it was probably the most rewarding change in my career because I was managing a massive sales force, and you had to be really good on communication, you learn about logistics, you have massive budgets you have to manage. And I had like, I think I had like 15 direct reports at one point. So you get really good at the feedback side and all those things, just the repetition. But uh, and I came back to a bigger role back to Canada after I'd done this, and it was one of the most rewarding experiences, and it taught me a lot. So I would say that was the moment that uh and they didn't, I wasn't very happy at the time when they gave me the assignment, but I learned to love it in a hurry.

John Wilson 9:47

Yeah, it was a game changer for you, eh? Game changer. It was definitely Tom. Uh we're we need to wrap up now. I can't thank you enough for taking the time to be with us. Uh some really good leadership lessons there, some nuggets uh uh that you've given us in this uh short period of time. Uh so thank you very much. We appreciate you doing this uh very much. No, thank you, John. It was great uh chatting with you. Yeah, thank you.