John Wilson (00:00)
Zane, I can't thank you enough for being on the CEO Global Network podcast. It's just great to see you again.

Zain Bari (00:06)
John. Thank you so much for having me. I love listening to your podcasts, and what I love the most is that you go into the messy middle of success stories. That is what makes us who we are, right?

John Wilson (00:24)
100%.

Zain Bari (00:32)
As leaders, as people, and I love that.

John Wilson (00:36)
Well, thank you very much for that. Let me tell everybody a little bit: Zain is the CEO of Matra AI and Matra AI Labs, driving AI compliance, governance, and risk management. She's also a psychotherapist and life coach.

Zain Bari (00:39)
Yeah.

John Wilson (01:03)
And an executive coach, graduate of the London School of Economics, with additional training from Harvard. Very impressive background.

Zain Bari (01:16)
Thank you. I love the different hats I wear—it’s curiosity about human beings that drives me.

John Wilson (01:20)
Yeah, that's wonderful. So, Zane, how do you balance leading an AI advisory firm while also practicing psychotherapy and coaching?

Zain Bari (01:41)
For me, they’re not separate. My therapy work keeps me grounded in empathy and understanding human behavior, which is central to leadership. That human insight informs my work at Matra, where I focus on systems, accountability, impact, and above all, trust. You can't have compliance without trust.

John Wilson (02:27)
What emerging risks in AI do you think organizations are underestimating right now?

Zain Bari (02:45)
I call it governance debt—companies are deploying AI fast without clear guardrails, ownership, or oversight. There's also cultural blindness: lack of inclusivity in data can leave entire groups behind. Organizations must ask, "Who's missing from our data?" and build systems that reduce bias, not reinforce it.

John Wilson (04:30)
How do you ensure human-centered values remain central in AI deployment at your company?

Zain Bari (04:44)
At Matra, our governance framework keeps humans in the loop and makes accountability traceable. My lived experience as a female immigrant and CEO of color drives intentional inclusivity. Our systems are designed to be trustworthy and bias-free.

John Wilson (06:01)
That is so important and a differentiator for you, isn’t it?

Zain Bari (06:05)
Yes, absolutely. Bias and discrimination happen when there’s no human in the loop. Accountability and oversight are crucial.

John Wilson (06:28)
Which evidence-based therapy techniques have you found most effective in professional coaching?

Zain Bari (06:38)
I use a mix: cognitive behavioral therapy for reframing limiting beliefs, dialectical behavioral therapy for emotional regulation, and narrative therapy to shape the stories leaders tell themselves—essential for guiding teams and envisioning the future.

John Wilson (07:34)
What’s the biggest misconception that organizations have about ethical AI implementation?

Zain Bari (07:45)
Many think it’s just PR. Ethical AI is about structure, documentation, accountability, and oversight—not just glossy statements. Proper auditing and governance build trust within organizations and with clients.

John Wilson (08:21)
How do you see AI and mental wellness intersecting in the next five years?

Zain Bari (08:34)
AI has potential for early detection, personalized care, and reducing administrative burdens. But mental wellness is about human connection. AI cannot replace empathy, presence, and understanding—the human element is essential.

John Wilson (10:03)
Empathy is critical for leaders, isn’t it?

Zain Bari (10:13)
Absolutely. We must remember everyone is on a unique journey each day. Leaders need to meet people where they are, every day, with empathy.

John Wilson (10:46)
Zane, I can't thank you enough for being on the CEO Global Network podcast. This has been incredibly informative.

Zain Bari (10:59)
Thank you, John. I loved our conversation and look forward to doing more.